subiect: accesul interzis femeilor pe muntele Atos; Grecia membra a Uniunii deci legata prin TCE care prevede libera circulatie a persoanelor, lipsa oricarei discriminari bazata pe sex, nationalitate etc.

ce pareri aveti?

yic ca nu stiu yau cine ii va convinge pe calugarii de pe munte sa accepte femei acolo.
Cand am fost eu la athos ghidul ne/a spus o legenda cum ca a incercat odata o femeie si a fost omorata de calugari care au simtit/o dupa miros.

asta e doar o legenda :)

- nu ne aflam intr-un domeniu reglementat de dreptul comunitar, totusi:

- masurile restrictive sunt justificate de necesitatea apararii vietii spirituale religioase traditionale;
- se aplica in mod nediscriminatoriu resortisantilor greci cat si celor din alte state membre;
- principiul proportionalitatii este respectat.

Sa ne uitam si in curtea proprie! Exista si manastiri de calugari in Romania care aplica aceeasi regula sub pretextul unor blesteme stravechi.

Da, dar acele manastiri nu sunt domeniu public.

Cu tot respectul MEIN HERR,
dar daca nediscriminarea ar fi obligatorie, doar pe domenul public, ce rost ar mai avea?

interesant ce spui tu.
insa criteriile aplicate de tine sunt cele valabile in cazul libertatilor economice.

M-ai prins.

Totusi, de ce nu s-ar aplica aceste criterii si in cazul liberei circulatii a persoanei? (Le-am gasit aplicate in "Comisia c. Olandei, 10.07.2003, recurs in neindeplinirea obligatiilor).

Problema mi se pare falsa, deoarece organizarea teritoriala a statelor este de competenta lor exclusiva. Muntele Athos are un statut special, fiind o parte auto-administrata SUVERANA. Statutul se datoreaza traditiei religioase si se supune dreptului ecleziastic grec, nu celui al "comunitatilor economice".

Constitutia Greciei:
Chapitre III
Le regime du Mont Athos
Article 105
1. La presqunile dnAthos qui, a partir et au-dela de Megali Vigla, constitue le territoire du Mont Athos, est, selon son antique statut privilegie, une partie auto-administree de lnÉtat hellenique dont la souverainete y demeure intacte. Du point de vue spirituel, le Mont Athos releve de la juridiction directe du Patriarcat oecumenique. Tous ceux qui y menent la vie monastique acquierent la nationalite hellenique des qunils sont admis comme moines ou novices, sans autre formalite.
2. Le Mont Athos est administre, dnapres son statut, par ses vingt saints monasteres, entre lesquels est repartie toute la presqunile dnAthos, dont le sol est inalienable.
Lnadministration du Mont Athos snexerce par des representants des saints monasteres, formant la Sainte Communaute. Il nnest pas permis dnapporter une modification quelconque au systeme administratif ou au nombre des monasteres du Mont Athos, non plus quna leur ordre hierarchique et a leurs rapports avec leurs dependances. Lninstallation au Mont Athos dnheterodoxes ou de schismatiques est interdite.
3. La determination detaillee des regimes athonites et du mode de leur fonctionnement se fait au moyen de la Charte statutaire du Mont Athos, qui est redigee et votee par les vingt saints monasteres avec la participation du representant de lnÉtat, et que ratifient tant le Patriarcat oecumenique que la Chambre des deputes des Hellenes.
4. La stricte observance des regimes athonites est placee, sur le plan spirituel, sous la haute surveillance du Patriarcat oecumenique, et, sur le plan administratif, sous la tutelle de lnÉtat, auquel en outre appartient exclusivement le maintien de lnordre et de la surete publics.
5. Les pouvoirs susmentionnes de lnÉtat sont exerces par un gouverneur, dont les droits et les devoirs sont determines par la loi.
Sont egalement determines par la loi le pouvoir judiciaire exerce par les autorites des monasteres et la Sainte Communaute, ainsi que les avantages douaniers et fiscaux du Mont Athos.

Traducerea.......?

Traducerea in engleza:

Article 105
1. The Athos peninsula extending beyond Megali Vigla and constituting the region of Aghion Oros shall, in accordance with its ancient privileged status, be a self-governed part of the Greek State, whose sovereignty thereon shall remain intact. Spiritually, Aghion Oros shall come under the direct jurisdiction of the Ecumenical Patriarchate. All persons leading a monastic life thereon acquire Greek citizenship without further formalities, upon admission as novices or monks.
2. Aghion Oros shall be governed, according to its regime, by its twenty Holy Monasteries among which the entire Athos peninsula is divided; the territory of the peninsula shall be exempt from expropriation.
The administration of Aghion Oros shall be exercised by representatives of the Holy Monasteries constituting the Holy Community. No change whatsoever shall be permitted in the administrative system or in the number of Monasteries of Aghion Oros, or in their hierarchical order or in their position to their subordinate dependencies. Heterodox or schismatic persons shall be prohibited from dwelling thereon.
3. The determination in detail of the regimes of the Aghion Oros entities and the manner of operation thereof is effected by the Charter of Aghion Oros which, with the cooperation of the State representative, shall be drawn up and voted by the twenty Holy Monasteries and ratified by the Ecumenical Patriarchate and the Parliament of the Hellenes.
4. Faithful observance of the regimes of the Aghion Oros entities shall in the spiritual field be under the supreme supervision of the Ecumenical Patriarchate, and, in the administrative, under the supervision of the State, which shall also be exclusively responsible for safeguarding public order and security.
5. The afore-mentioned powers of the State shall be exercised through a governor whose rights and duties shall be determined by law.
The law shall likewise determine the judicial power exercised by the monastic authorities and the Holy Community, as well as the customs and taxation privileges of Aghion Oros.

e bine ca nu ne-ai dat traducerea in bulgareste.

voi vreti sa cunoasteti drept comunitar fara sa vorbiti franceza si/ engleza? ma tem ca nu prea se poate :)

Muntele Athos nu tine doar de organizare. Daca vreau sa fac turism acolo nu-mi va fi permis. Daca ar fi doar strict impartire administrativ-teritoriala fara efecte asupra drepturilor persoanelor, as fi de acord cu ce spui.
Pe de alta parte Statele membre la Uniune au inteles prin constituire, initial, si ulterior prin aderare sa transfere o parte a suveranitatii lor catre Comunitate, iar dreptul comunitar are caracter supranational (Van Gend en Loss). Chiar si Constitutiile statelor trebuie interpretate in lumina dispozitiilor din TCE.

ce este interesant si aduci tu aici este raportul intre dreptul ecleziastic si Comunitate. Cum spuneam statele au transferat o parte a suveranitatii lor, dar n-am intalnit nimic despre autoritatile religioase. Care este raportul intre autoritatile religioase si autoritatile publice, guvernamentale? Desi din referinta ta, statutul muntelui Athos e integrat in Constitutia elena, deci.....

Poti sa transferi ceea ce nu ai? Grecia a recunoscut suveranitatea regiunii muntelui Athos si o protejeaza, aspecte reiterate si in Tratatul de aderare din 1979.